just a simple Question ??????? its a political one so if your hormonal please dont open !

this is just a simple question that i have asked many times & never got what i feel to be sufficiant answer, "Why was the punters or spectators Choice taken away from the VanNats & replaced with Vanners Choice" ???? most car shows have the "Punters Choice" & to most entrants winning it is right up there with "overall car of the day". Here are some of my favourite answers i have recieved when i ask this question . 1 "the Punters just dont Vote" ..... yeh right .... answer 2 " it was tried @ a nationals & a shitbox one it so it was canned to stop that happening again" ????, & my personal favourite answer is 3 " Punters just dont know how to judge a Van its different to judging a car you know" WTF what a load if #### oh sorry rubbish its all about what appeals to the general public not what Van is technically correct in the eyes of the Seasoned Vanner ??? I feel "Vanners Choice" should be stopped & replaced with "Punters Choice" it gives the paying public a chance to feel they have made a contribution to the show will be more pro-active & have a genuine curriosity of the outcome , it will also this one being important in my eyes it will take the monopoly away from the larger organisations that directly control the outcome time & time again ............ so can YOU answer it for me "Why was Punters Choice taken away" ????

Good question........ Not my arena, but here's my 2 cents.

I'd like to see both........... Vanners (or entrants Choice) & Peoples (Paying Public Choice).

See what we "like" as opposed to those paying to look "like"

Even better why not have both

Hi Al. we had both this year and only got 12 voting slips back and 8 of those were from the same hand writing which gave it to a stock VW camper van.... i din't see these slips till after the nats.

They should be in your pack when you arrive...
One slip per entrant,, not 8 for whoever feels the need to put more than 1 in..!!!

Punters choice should be given away "before" they leave for the day, not at late presentations.
That way they can see who won before heading home, otherwise what's the point?

** Hey brutle you coming down with the beast next Nats?????

Cheers Allan

i just dont believe no one voted "SORRY" i just dont swallow that one , i agree Allan that the presentations should be made during the day & sorry mate no we wont be down as the dates are a little close to the Street Machine Nationals that are to be held in Sydney & my guess is we will be still chasing our tails getting it sorted when the Vannats are on . Cheers

Your correct guys with the way Peoples choice is not there, I think it the best Trophy to win at any show as it shows even though you built your car to suit yourself- other people still think its the best as well, Vanners choice seems to be centred around the person who owns it rather than the van itself and as for the public not knowing about vans thats a load of crap because if they didnt like vans why would they be at the Van Nats?????, Thats my TWO BOBS, Happy Vannin.

Vanners choice is pretty much the ultimate award, it is when all your vanning friends vote for what most appeals to them, they don't have to judge it, it's just what they like the most, pretty much the van other than their own they would like to take home.

Peoples choice has proven over the years at many van nats and other car shows to be a problem as a typical example (i won't name the club) used to get all their members to vote for one of their own members van/car and when this club has 20 or more members at the event it counts alot to wards favouring their member. Many or most people and clubs will choose what they like but it will always happen in peoples choice that club members may be persuaded to vote for a club members vehicle and i have been around long enough to know this has happened many times.

Is their a fair and just solution? i don't think so. Anyway at the nats it is totally up to the people running the event if they choose to have either or both of the awards, so really it is not anaward that has been scraped it may be in one year out the next and back in the following.
James

Wait a minute there James now i am confussed how is it that if the peoples choice is somehow flawed because it can be manipulated by a powerfull club any different to Vanners choice that is the whole reason "Vanners Choice" should go as it IS monopolized by powerfull clubs . Plus just for the record "Peoples Choice" voting slips are given out to spectators as they enter the ground NOT entrants or there support crew .

as for peoples choice this year we had the voting slips at Pinky's bus and has was telling the public all day to collect a slip and vote and return it to the box at this bus but the PEOPLE didn't give a dam. so that didn't work well it to late to change that result.

Dont know if I have the right to enter my opinion since ive been away from the van scene for 20 odd years but when I used to go to auto shows of any kind through the 80's most of the peoples choice slips where handed out as they came through the gates. what they did with them then is anybodys guess but there allways seemed to be enough votes for an award.
maybe there could be a 65-45% type of thing where both vanners and peoples choice could be counted together to make up a whole vote
Could keep everyone happy maybe?????

[quote="rambletamble"]
maybe there could be a 65-45% type of thing where both vanners and peoples choice could be counted together to make up a whole vote



Hang on,,that would be 110%.. silly geoffrey

[quote="rambletamble"]

rambletamble wrote:
maybe there could be a 65-45% type of thing where both vanners and peoples choice could be counted together to make up a whole vote



Hang on,,that would be 110%.. silly geoffrey

Hot weather or to many ale's this afternoon???

Um, Hot weather and NOT enough ale's me thinks

Maybe a exit poll type of scenario.......

Ask the public as they leave which car they liked the most????????

They have to que to get in (pay even), why not make ém que to get out!

then ya can charge them an exit fee if they dont vote. lol

YEP...............................................................

the following statement is the reason i asked the original question i have copied this directly from the posting headed entry form & advice sheet . ""At the moment the only trophies we will guarantee are Entrants’ Choice, which will be judged by a selected cross section of the entrants similar to what was done at Post MacDonnell ""

& i ask who are the select group who judges "Vanners or Entrants choice" ????? i have been an entrant in multiple Van Nationals & never presented with a voting form ????? maybe im not fortunate enough to be a part of this "select group"

i ask again why do we not have "Punters Choice" ???? instead of the Farce that is Vanners Choice or at very least make it so that every entrant at least gets a vote not just a "select few"

Simply put, I do not have enopugh time or space on this forum to explain in great detail as to why it is done lie this. The "Selected Vanners" are as follows, each club is asked to pu in a vote, or multiple votes depending on exactly how the entrants ratio is going. Also several non club member entrants picked at random are also chosen. This has proven to give a good cross section of entrants, while also elliminating the favoritism that HAS in the past caused problems with all the members of a club picking a particular vehicle in their club because they had the most entrants. The Light show at Nabiac is a good example of this. We have in the past tried the "punter choice" as you put it and it becomes more an issue of where you park your vehicle in relation to where the forms have to be dropped off. We have also proven this and I can give various examples.
The "Punters" also look for pretty cars. the idea of entrants choice is not necessarily the best vehicle on show, but the Van which you would most like to take home. The Judges are there to judge the best Vehicle. I would much rather win an award because the majority of vanners picked my van than the general public who have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a decent van. JUst because it has pretty murals and flashing light that attract attention (no I am not talking about Daz, just metophorically speaking) and it is parked near the gate where the forms have to be filled in because most punters do not walk around with biro's paying attention to what they are doing. It is a last minute when they are approached on the way out so the shiny one that stands out from the front gate will win. And in response to who ever said what happens to the "Punters forms" about 5% get handed in as above, the rest we have to pick up after the show from where they were dropped, if no in the nearest bin. In the 30 years we have been judging and running shows we have tried every conceivable variation of the suggested ideas. Shit we even had one show promoter who tried to stack the peoples choice so his own vehicle would win. This year the only person who was motivated enough to get off their arse and fill in miltiple forms them self won the award. so any one could have won it you just needed to fill in more forms than anyone else. We have tried putting them in entrants goody bags, and I believ most of them were found once the entrants got home and actually looked through the goody bag. I know that is where mine are.
If any one has a better idea please let me know, however in saying this if you are going to put up ideas please be warned that if we have tried it before, of if there are major flaws I the idea I will let you know. I am more than happy to look at new ideas, and / or discuss face to face with anyone why we do these things, but we have been doing this for a long time, not just with the Nationals but with numerous other shows over the years so there are not many new ideas that have not been tried. we have just tried to find a comprimise where everyone has a fair chance of winning, and my preference is for Vanners to pick the top Van not tourists who have no idea. As I said I could go on for hours but time is limited and I have better things to do at the moment.
Matt

why go there any way.aunt we all there for the same thing to show off our vans,cars,hotrods.i have won top van trophys in the past but i wasn't there for that and if they did have them i still would have been there.
come on gugs and girls get with the progam it about good times and the sport of it.trophys and the problems they bring is why i stopped showing.

Well Put express post. Trophies bring out the worst in people. the whole idea is to get together and have a good weekend. share ideas and dreams. Unfortunately we had to start with trophies to get people to come. It also helps with getting better quality vans to the event which bring in the public. This year however I personally do not care about the show (although there will be one) we are just organising an event for vanners who want to get together and have a fun weekend. The trophy list at this stage will be greatly reduced due to the piss poor amount of pre entrants. if entrys do not pick up in the next month I guess we will see who really only comes to win trophies. As we have said numerous times we are only catering this year for those who pre-enter. if you turn up on the day / weekend there may not be a category for you if we do not know you are coming.

I like your way of thinking this year Matt. I would still go to the nats every year even if there were never to be any more trophies. To me its about spending time with friends from around the country who i do not see all year or only talk to on cyber space and of coarse to show off my van. To recieve an award for your van is always a bonus at a show because it shows the rewards of your efforts, but i have always said that one should never go to a show and expect to win a trophy as you will never know what will show up on the day and like many who expect something they will go home and have a bitch to their friends and complain about this and that. Well maybe then they should run the show the following year or put their own on and see how they feel after their efforts to make every one happy failed because some one didn't recieve a trophy or they wern't happy with the judging. Just can't keep everyone happy unfortunately.

Yes James the old "its all about catching up with friends & having a good time" routine i get that !!!! i myself have never ticked for my van to be judged at any nationals ever but the question was never that , i just think this judging by a "select group" Days are over , i just think it a joke when you see vans in the top 10 with rust rust comming out of them . i think the Geelong Nationals had the right idea the Vans should be judged by outside of the Clubs .

If that was the right idea we have a major problem. the combi won entrants choice because she voted for her own van more times than any one else.... thats a good way to get a general concensus. how about getting rodders to judge who think anything without a steel dash and 1/4 vent windows should not be considered. how did a van with a hole in the block get in the top few? great idea.
the judges at the ntionals have, for the most part been from outside the van clubs and are the same people that have judged at most shows for the past 20 years, including the summernats, the spring car nationals, the van nationals, the all holden, all ford and all chrysler shows. the judges who do the van nats have been judging for longer than most of you have been driving and have had to put up with bitching and whinging from dick heads who think they know everything since the beginning of Vanning and streetmachining in this country. for christ sake get over it. if you think you can do a better job prove it. put your hand up and run a nationals or at least take the time to talk, and more importantly listen to those that have been doing it since the 1970's.

we would just like the privilege to say here you go people, this is our van, isn't that what it is all about?