IDEAS FOR THE PERFECT VAN NATIONALS

Sorry but this is Kath's Post i have just moved it here for her.

Just thinking how we as future Van Nats entrants could have a say on what could be done to make the perfect Van Nats, doesnt matter how odd your idea, but I thought of this in no particular oder of preference

A uniform judging sheet, should be given to each entrant so as to how we know how best to present our vans for judging day
Venue should have access to powered sites (were now getting too old to camp, so need the microwave and heater )
Car wash facilities on site
Definately walking access to Grog and Grub or attainable at the venue up until midnight
Must have lots of showers/loos
Top Vans could be made up of
Top 3 small
Top 3 Medium
Top 3 Big
Top 3 New Age
and an overall Van 1&2 chosen out of above, I know its different, and probably, controversial but could work ?????
After all this is just an idea
BIG HUGS KATH

I've thought about this for a few years and always thought top 10 too many.... need to make it harder to get into the tops or at least make it more competitive... top 10 is too many, top 5 would probably suffice, that would up the ante and get more people into concentrating on details and give more quality to look at. Isn't that what it used to be? If you're really hunting a trophy, and you win one, then you have something to be proud of, top 10 is too easy, look at the HRS, the competition is a lot higher, so to achieve a trophy at one of their shows means a lot more in the motoring community than a trophy at the nats. If we could achieve that in vanning, the trophy hunters would come out of hiding a lot more often. Top 3 in each category, small, medium, large, then one each top mural, top graphics, top drive train/undercarriage, top interior, one merit overall (meaning real merit, not just pretending), entrants choice (which is the real compliment), then overall top 5 and probably a couple of others I have missed out. Just some thoughts, maybe we need a comittee (dare I say it, of not just the oldies) to maybe re-define what we need in judging these days. Certainly meaning no offence to anyone and therefore, apologies in advance to anyone who is p1ssed off at my view. You are entitled to your view too.

Just another thought
as the event is held over 4 days, maybe the events could be held from thursday night onwards
Auction could be held half an hour each night over the four nights
People games on friday afternoon, novelty races (rocker cover/remote control) with a night cruise somewhere for interested vanners
cruise, car events during saturday, everybody have tea at their own campsites (possibly followed by band and communal hang out saturday night
Show sunday and after a communal meal then into presentations while everyone is having their meal

Wow, Kath, all those points make for a good Vannats. I think you should put them in place for a trial during Easter 2010...

i think that also.

I'll third that.
Any chance of getting an old judging sheet put here on the forum to give us an idea as to what the criteria was? (any nats will do).

I'd like to see the trophys on Show Day given out before the days over...

Your asking the public to hand over good money, they then leave not knowing which van got what.
At other shows i always liked too see the results before going home...
Nice to see the awarded cars as you scoot around, so you can compare vans yourself...
Maybe leave the lesser catergories for the Final nights dinner/ presentations...

Another idea i mentioned long ago was having a designated area for non-showing vans

for dudes just coming too the show for the day, then letting us see there vans too...
This would encourage more new members to get on board, & having somewhere safe to park ya pride & joy.

I'd like to see a 'fairer system of prices for entering the show'

eg i saw a young green guy get slugged $145 the full price for 4 days of Nationals,
then another known fellow vanner paying $70- for exactly the same thing a few hours later, Fairs fair...
I know a lot of us pay early bird prices, but that's not encouraging new members at all.

AS you can probably see I'm into supporting new members & clubs growing..

I know Victoria is suffering for getting new members on board.
We need to encourage them in, not just with prices but judging also - Vic titles was a bad eg...
I was shattered i didnt have my van at Vic titles, the final results discouraged me & other vanners from the South-west & South Eastern areas.... Many were missing from the Nationals because of that alone.
i'm not commenting on judging.!!

I hope my opionions answer Daz's input question...
I hope we expand on all club's numbers & involvement this 2009 2010 year...

I personally would like to see a South-west division of Victoria, expand as a club for Victoria alone.
That's my goal before the next Titles, State & National... there's plenty down my way, they just need a little push, without the pasts' knock-backs...

Blah Blah Blah

that's enough from me....
An opinion is like a belly button. everybody has one, but it does'nt necessarily hold water

free_styler1

Good points there Freestyler.
Would it be possible to have a Van Council of Australia to help get things on a level playing field for ALL van judging?

In regards to:
"i saw a young green guy get slugged $145 the full price for 4 days of Nationals,
then another known fellow vanner paying $70- for exactly the same thing a few hours later, Fairs fair...
I know a lot of us pay early bird prices, but that's not encouraging new members at all"
What day was this?

In regards to:
"i saw a young green guy get slugged $145 the full price for 4 days of Nationals,
then another known fellow vanner paying $70- for exactly the same thing a few hours later, Fairs fair...
I know a lot of us pay early bird prices, but that's not encouraging new members at all"
What day was this?

Unfortunately Saturday

"QUOTE" I'd like to see a 'fairer system of prices for entering the show'

eg i saw a young green guy get slugged $145 the full price for 4 days of Nationals,
then another known fellow vanner paying $70- for exactly the same thing a few hours later, Fairs fair...
I know a lot of us pay early bird prices, but that's not encouraging new members at all. "END QUOTE"

sorry what you sore was right but wrong at the same time as the one that paid $70.00 was paying the BALANCE of his $145.00 entry.

sorry just had to clear that one up.

As for the Judging at the state titles that was judged by Vanners.. so how can we win ?

cheers Daz

piss off the trophys?

Yep great idea but keep the puppy rosette's tho... and for the Vet's we add a key ring with some Nitrate tablets for the heart.

Just get judges that know what their looking at, if need be have 2 lots of seperate judges who after judging compare notes and differences, to decide the overall winners. YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE WHO ENTERS A JUDGED SHOW! People all have different ideas as to what constitutes a nice van and some people just want to win a dust collector, I mean trophy.

Hey guys first of all I would like to say that Luke and I had a great time at the nats, we met some really nice people and everybody was friendly. It was good to put some faces to the names on this forum! Getting some great complimentary comments on the van was a real encouragement too, especially from the fellow vanners. A big well done to the organisers, what a job!

And just to make it clear again, it is my sandman!!!!! (one of the members of the public even had the cheek to say 'well who's name is it under though' when Luke told him it was mine not his!! Arghhh!)

Being my first nats and not a ‘showy’I prob can't help much and it makes no difference to me whether there are any trophies or not but will make the following comments that may be of some use:

-for those people who have never shown their vans before or been to one of these events it would be really helpful to know what the vehicles are getting judged on and how each aspect is waited/scored. A standard criteria or judging description sheet could be distributed with separate ones for interior, paint, etc. Completed assessments could then be handed to each entrant after completion of presentations so they get feedback on where their vans scored well or were lacking. I reckon this would assist the 'showys' to improve their vans in the areas needed.
-I think the classes should be clearly defined and advertised on the entry form. For me it was like 'judged' what is that meant to mean? Judged for what were my thoughts!
-I imagine it would be very difficult to judge vans across the board given the huge array in styles and eras. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to break sections up into things like best pre 70's, best 2000's, etc etc other than best small, medium and large van. Then also have the special prizes (best paint, best original etc) and the top vans as an overall as well. And it may be hard but what about allocating parking areas for each class (that way all the kingswood types would be parked together, all the commodore types together etc. - would look great! I guess not ideal for clubs though that have various van types and styles)
-A real highlight of the nats for me was cruising with the other vans on the saturday. Could there be more cruises - this would further advertise for show day and get us all noticed.
-What about getting a professional photographer one arvo to take pics of our vans that we could purchase (like down the foreshore or something). We all like nice photos of our prides and joy.
-Thought the car games were good and you always need a light and sound show. What about a best van rumble (for lack of a better description). We all like our cars to sound good on the road so why not recognise this ‘noise’ too.
-May be a pain but a projector screen with pics of the winning cars at presentations would go down a treat. Not oo hard to sort out for someone with a few technical skills.
-To ease the judging and timing of presentations why not put cars out for judging on Sat arvo and commence judging, then complete it on Sun morning with presentations at say 2pm. This could be advertised on the flyers so the public can attend too.

There you go, thats all my silly ideas at the moment!!!

mandy wrote:Hey guys first of all I would like to say that Luke and I had a great time at the nats, we met some really nice people and everybody was friendly. It was good to put some faces to the names on this forum! Getting some great complimentary comments on the van was a real encouragement too, especially from the fellow vanners. A big well done to the organisers, what a job!

And just to make it clear again, it is my sandman!!!!! (one of the members of the public even had the cheek to say 'well who's name is it under though' when Luke told him it was mine not his!! Arghhh!)

Being my first nats and not a ‘showy’I prob can't help much and it makes no difference to me whether there are any trophies or not but will make the following comments that may be of some use:

-for those people who have never shown their vans before or been to one of these events it would be really helpful to know what the vehicles are getting judged on and how each aspect is waited/scored. A standard criteria or judging description sheet could be distributed with separate ones for interior, paint, etc. Completed assessments could then be handed to each entrant after completion of presentations so they get feedback on where their vans scored well or were lacking. I reckon this would assist the 'showys' to improve their vans in the areas needed.
-I think the classes should be clearly defined and advertised on the entry form. For me it was like 'judged' what is that meant to mean? Judged for what were my thoughts!
-I imagine it would be very difficult to judge vans across the board given the huge array in styles and eras. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to break sections up into things like best pre 70's, best 2000's, etc etc other than best small, medium and large van. Then also have the special prizes (best paint, best original etc) and the top vans as an overall as well. And it may be hard but what about allocating parking areas for each class (that way all the kingswood types would be parked together, all the commodore types together etc. - would look great! I guess not ideal for clubs though that have various van types and styles)
-A real highlight of the nats for me was cruising with the other vans on the saturday. Could there be more cruises - this would further advertise for show day and get us all noticed.
-What about getting a professional photographer one arvo to take pics of our vans that we could purchase (like down the foreshore or something). We all like nice photos of our prides and joy.
-Thought the car games were good and you always need a light and sound show. What about a best van rumble (for lack of a better description). We all like our cars to sound good on the road so why not recognise this ‘noise’ too.
-May be a pain but a projector screen with pics of the winning cars at presentations would go down a treat. Not oo hard to sort out for someone with a few technical skills.
-To ease the judging and timing of presentations why not put cars out for judging on Sat arvo and commence judging, then complete it on Sun morning with presentations at say 2pm. This could be advertised on the flyers so the public can attend too.

There you go, thats all my silly ideas at the moment!!!

Now there some great idea's with presentation & the projecting images of winners & Vans / Wagons / Streetcars / Rods & Events, technical man here

Some positive ideas here.. keep them coming, as for the photo presentation well it has been done before & will again, but this year we just run out of friends to borrow a large screen or a projectir and the hire costs were to great. also this can be a very hard thing to do with the fact simrtimes the results are not in early enough to sort it all out but i am sure the future this wull be over come.

good to see it being talked about early enough that some of this may be involved in the next nats.

cheers
Daz

Sorry to jump back on the trophy band wagon...

I've entered shows where there are loads of trophys and sections...
One i entered you had to choose which categories (3) you wanted to be judged in...

This then gave those with the trick interiors for instance a shot at that category, without say the 20k paint job.
Those with the 20k paint job had a crack at that, they were listed on the cars so you could see what 'main categories' they were competing in. There was also the normal top car etc.

Trophy's handed out early, everybody happy! Well nearly everybody, except the head judges worker, he cleaned up! It seems to happen where ever you go... Anyways...

Another idea maybe for the 'AgroNAts' next year.

free_styler1 Allan

Fres dancing like Peter Garrett, i'd like to see that, it would make my nats
Pretty much spot on Fres
Keep the trophy presentation for later in the evening as it has been, with the presentation during the event it cuts short any chance of going back over vans if there is any controversy and also as soon as presentations are over people usually start to leave the event and if you want more people for the auction later that night then presentation should be later after auction. I would say we lost about 50 or more people for the Auction because people did not need to hang around. Also Vanners choice should be left until the last trophy of the night, not half way through the presentation

People just need to accept the Nationals as they are run on that particular year as they are the ones going and having a great boozey time and chatting with friends while the organisers are doing all the hard work, accept the way they are done or put your hand up to run them yourselves. I know i made suggestions above but i still accept the way they are done each year, we are all permitted to make suggestions to help make it better.

Some really great ideas boys and girls. We used to have a band on the Staurday night but most times very few people showed up, or came in dribs and drabs. the bands cost around $2000 and you can not allways get one that everyone will like as we all have different tastes. This is why at the 21st Nats we tried a meal and supplied some drinks to get everyone in the one spot at the same time, then it turns into a praty.
To have the trophies presented during the day the judging would need to be done the day before of some other system, such as summernats where they look at you on the way in then decide if the van is worth actually judging. how long do you think a judge should spend looking at your van, categories judged are Exterior, Interior, Engine Bay and Undercarriage. all components of these areas are judged, quality, workmanship detail, cleanliness and safety are what the judges usually look for. Then multiply that by about 150 vehicles. Judging starts at 9:00am.
In the past different systems of returning judging sheets have been tried, from actually giving the judging sheets back to certificates with your score the highest score and the average score. remembering that everyone generally thinks there Van is better than it actually is, when the judging sheets were returned quite a number of people took their sheets and then sat down and compared them with their mates bitching that there van should have scored better than their mate and vice versa.
The 2008 nats had photos of the Vans at presentations, great idea but not real easy to organise within time frames if there are problems with judging.
I agree we should cull the trophies for the top Vans but add more encouragement / special merit. there are a lot of Vanners who have been around for a number of years and who do not need as much encouragement as maybe some of the newere vans. There were a number of really nice first time Vans at the nats this year that deserved something as encouragement and possible motivation than some of the vans that one things, including some of the top 10.
All I really think a good Van Nats needs is vanners. anything more than that is bonus. Toilets and showers keep the wives happy.
More to come, have to get out of the headlights for a moment

Agro wrote:Good points there Freestyler.
Would it be possible to have a Van Council of Australia to help get things on a level playing field for ALL van judging?

Great idea, has been tried several times so far from The ASVA (Australian Street Van Association) and then breakaway from the ASVA, (Interclub Committee) to committee of representatives from each Van Council (VCV, VCWA, NSWVC, SAVC) that didn't work, tried an association with representatives from each state. this worked for one year then fell in a heap as recently as 2004-2005. If anyone can come up with a way we can put this in place successfully I will support it 100%. more interstate runs and weekends, better interstate relationships, infact if we removed the borders we could all become part of the same vanning community. I think so far this internet thing is the best result we have had to date. well done to you all

Skippy wrote: infact if we removed the borders we could all become part of the same vanning community.

Hi Skippy
Walking around the nats i would have thought it was all one vanning community.(IN MY OPINION ONLY).
Not once was i made to feel unwelcome at any fire or club.

What was the reason why the "association with representatives" failed?

Agro,
At the Nats all is good. In fact at most events all is good. the problems occur when groups get together and not everyone agrees, then someone has to make concessions. Top that with the stupid interstate rivalry that we have all had bred into us since birth. Especially when it involves $ or splits or whatever.
The first problem with the ASVA was a representative from interstate who came to Vic to the first meeting then went back to his state and told everyone he was the ASVA rep for that state and everyone had to do what he said. The obvious result was a bunch of pissed off Vanners who then thought Vic was trying to take over Vanning in Aust. Typical missunderstanding and not sitting down with all parties involved and talking rationally about it. As with anything, if you only hear one side of the story the other side must be at fault. Just ask my ex wifes solicitor.
If only we could all get along like it was the Nats all the time.Segregation and politics between clubs, states or even individuals is what splits and eventually destroys the sport. We have been lucky over the past few years with Daz & Fres organising chat sessions etc so Vanners can get to know each other before finding they are from different states or drive different brands of Vans. Kind of like Meeting your wife on the internet.

But surely if you had a representative from every club,one who is open to suggestions and is able to be rationable (not someone who thinks their shit don't stink and is perfect in every way), they could sort it out and get some discussion happening to solve the issues.
But surely most people would be preparred to "give and take" to make things better for everyone australia wide? if not then don't have them on the council.